Monday, February 11, 2008
Monday, January 21, 2008
On Martin Luther King Day
This was an amazing read. Found it on: http://www.mlkonline.net/christians.html
Paul's Letter to American Christians, November, 4, 1956:
I would like to share with you an imaginary letter from the pen of the Apostle Paul. The postmark reveals that it comes from the city of Ephesus. After opening the letter I discovered that it was written in Greek rather than English. At the top of the first page was this request: "Please read to your congregation as soon as possible, and then pass on to the other churches."
For several weeks I have worked assiduously with the translation. At times it has been difficult, but now I think I have deciphered its true meaning. May I hasten to say that if in presenting this letter the contents sound strangely Kingian instead of Paulinian, attribute it to my lack of complete objectivity rather than Paul's lack of clarity.
It is miraculous, indeed, that the Apostle Paul should be writing a letter to you and to me nearly 1900 years after his last letter appeared in the New Testament. How this is possible is something of an enigma wrapped in mystery. The important thing, however, is that I can imagine the Apostle Paul writing a letter to American Christians in 1956 A.D. And here is the letter as it stands before me.
I, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to you who are in America, Grace be unto you, and peace from God our Father, through our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
For many years I have longed to be able to come to see you. I have heard so much of you and of what you are doing. I have heard of the fascinating and astounding advances that you have made in the scientific realm. I have heard of your dashing subways and flashing airplanes. Through your scientific genius you have been able to dwarf distance and place time in chains. You have been able to carve highways through the stratosphere. So in your world you have made it possible to eat breakfast in New York City and dinner in Paris, France. I have also heard of your skyscraping buildings with their prodigious towers steeping heavenward. I have heard of your great medical advances, which have resulted in the curing of many dread plagues and diseases, and thereby prolonged your lives and made for greater security and physical well-being. All of that is marvelous. You can do so many things in your day that I could not do in the Greco-Roman world of my day. In your age you can travel distances in one day that took me three months to travel. That is wonderful. You have made tremendous strides in the area of scientific and technological development.
But America, as I look at you from afar, I wonder whether your moral and spiritual progress has been commensurate with your scientific progress. It seems to me that your moral progress lags behind your scientific progress. Your poet Thoreau used to talk about "improved means to an unimproved end." How often this is true. You have allowed the material means by which you live to outdistance the spiritual ends for which you live. You have allowed your mentality to outrun your morality. You have allowed your civilization to outdistance your culture. Through your scientific genius you have made of the world a neighborhood, but through your moral and spiritual genius you have failed to make of it a brotherhood. So America, I would urge you to keep your moral advances abreast with your scientific advances.
I am impelled to write you concerning the responsibilities laid upon you to live as Christians in the midst of an unChristian world. That is what I had to do. That is what every Christian has to do. But I understand that there are many Christians in America who give their ultimate allegiance to man-made systems and customs. They are afraid to be different. Their great concern is to be accepted socially. They live by some such principle as this: "everybody is doing it, so it must be alright." For so many of you Morality is merely group consensus. In your modern sociological lingo, the mores are accepted as the right ways. You have unconsciously come to believe that right is discovered by taking a sort of Gallup poll of the majority opinion. How many are giving their ultimate allegiance to this way.
But American Christians, I must say to you as I said to the Roman Christians years ago, "Be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind." Or, as I said to the Phillipian Christians, "Ye are a colony of heaven." This means that although you live in the colony of time, your ultimate allegiance is to the empire of eternity. You have a dual citizenry. You live both in time and eternity; both in heaven and earth. Therefore, your ultimate allegiance is not to the government, not to the state, not to nation, not to any man-made institution. The Christian owes his ultimate allegiance to God, and if any earthly institution conflicts with God's will it is your Christian duty to take a stand against it. You must never allow the transitory evanescent demands of man-made institutions to take precedence over the eternal demands of the Almighty God.
I understand that you have an economic system in America known as Capitalism. Through this economic system you have been able to do wonders. You have become the richest nation in the world, and you have built up the greatest system of production that history has ever known. All of this is marvelous. But Americans, there is the danger that you will misuse your Capitalism. I still contend that money can be the root of all evil. It can cause one to live a life of gross materialism. I am afraid that many among you are more concerned about making a living than making a life. You are prone to judge the success of your profession by the index of your salary and the size of the wheel base on your automobile, rather than the quality of your service to humanity.
The misuse of Capitalism can also lead to tragic exploitation. This has so often happened in your nation. They tell me that one tenth of one percent of the population controls more than forty percent of the wealth. Oh America, how often have you taken necessities from the masses to give luxuries to the classes. If you are to be a truly Christian nation you must solve this problem. You cannot solve the problem by turning to communism, for communism is based on an ethical relativism and a metaphysical materialism that no Christian can accept. You can work within the framework of democracy to bring about a better distribution of wealth. You can use your powerful economic resources to wipe poverty from the face of the earth. God never intended for one group of people to live in superfluous inordinate wealth, while others live in abject deadening poverty. God intends for all of his children to have the basic necessities of life, and he has left in this universe "enough and to spare" for that purpose. So I call upon you to bridge the gulf between abject poverty and superfluous wealth.
I would that I could be with you in person, so that I could say to you face to face what I am forced to say to you in writing. Oh, how I long to share your fellowship.
Let me rush on to say something about the church. Americans, I must remind you, as I have said to so many others, that the church is the Body of Christ. So when the church is true to its nature it knows neither division nor disunity. But I am disturbed about what you are doing to the Body of Christ. They tell me that in America you have within Protestantism more than two hundred and fifty six denominations. The tragedy is not so much that you have such a multiplicity of denominations, but that most of them are warring against each other with a claim to absolute truth. This narrow sectarianism is destroying the unity of the Body of Christ. You must come to see that God is neither a Baptist nor a Methodist; He is neither a Presbyterian nor a Episcopalian. God is bigger than all of our denominations. If you are to be true witnesses for Christ, you must come to see that America.
But I must not stop with a criticism of Protestantism. I am disturbed about Roman Catholicism. This church stands before the world with its pomp and power, insisting that it possesses the only truth. It incorporates an arrogance that becomes a dangerous spiritual arrogance. It stands with its noble Pope who somehow rises to the miraculous heights of infallibility when he speaks ex cathedra. But I am disturbed about a person or an institution that claims infallibility in this world. I am disturbed about any church that refuses to cooperate with other churches under the pretense that it is the only true church. I must emphasize the fact that God is not a Roman Catholic, and that the boundless sweep of his revelation cannot be limited to the Vatican. Roman Catholicism must do a great deal to mend its ways.
There is another thing that disturbs me to no end about the American church. You have a white church and you have a Negro church. You have allowed segregation to creep into the doors of the church. How can such a division exist in the true Body of Christ? You must face the tragic fact that when you stand at 11:00 on Sunday morning to sing "All Hail the Power of Jesus Name" and "Dear Lord and Father of all Mankind," you stand in the most segregated hour of Christian America. They tell me that there is more integration in the entertaining world and other secular agencies than there is in the Christian church. How appalling that is.
I understand that there are Christians among you who try to justify segregation on the basis of the Bible. They argue that the Negro is inferior by nature because of Noah's curse upon the children of Ham. Oh my friends, this is blasphemy. This is against everything that the Christian religion stands for. I must say to you as I have said to so many Christians before, that in Christ "there is neither Jew nor Gentile, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for we are all one in Christ Jesus." Moreover, I must reiterate the words that I uttered on Mars Hill: "God that made the world and all things therein . . . hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth."
So Americans I must urge you to get rid of every aspect of segregation. The broad universalism standing at the center of the gospel makes both the theory and practice of segregation morally unjustifiable. Segregation is a blatant denial of the unity which we all have in Christ. It substitutes an "I-it" relationship for the "I-thou" relationship. The segregator relegates the segregated to the status of a thing rather than elevate him to the status of a person. The underlying philosophy of Christianity is diametrically opposed to the underlying philosophy of segregation, and all the dialectics of the logicians cannot make them lie down together.
I praise your Supreme Court for rendering a great decision just two or three years ago. I am happy to know that so many persons of goodwill have accepted the decision as a great moral victory. But I understand that there are some brothers among you who have risen up in open defiance. I hear that their legislative halls ring loud with such words as "nullification" and "interposition." They have lost the true meaning of democracy and Christianity. So I would urge each of you to plead patiently with your brothers, and tell them that this isn't the way. With understanding goodwill, you are obligated to seek to change their attitudes. Let them know that in standing against integration, they are not only standing against the noble precepts of your democracy, but also against the eternal edicts of God himself. Yes America, there is still the need for an Amos to cry out to the nation: "Let judgement roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream."
May I say just a word to those of you who are struggling against this evil. Always be sure that you struggle with Christian methods and Christian weapons. Never succumb to the temptation of becoming bitter. As you press on for justice, be sure to move with dignity and discipline, using only the weapon of love. Let no man pull you so low as to hate him. Always avoid violence. If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in your struggle, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.
In your struggle for justice, let your oppressor know that you are not attempting to defeat or humiliate him, or even to pay him back for injustices that he has heaped upon you. Let him know that you are merely seeking justice for him as well as yourself. Let him know that the festering sore of segregation debilitates the white man as well as the Negro. With this attitude you will be able to keep your struggle on high Christian standards.
Many persons will realize the urgency of seeking to eradicate the evil of segregation. There will be many Negroes who will devote their lives to the cause of freedom. There will be many white persons of goodwill and strong moral sensitivity who will dare to take a stand for justice. Honesty impels me to admit that such a stand will require willingness to suffer and sacrifice. So don't despair if you are condemned and persecuted for righteousness' sake. Whenever you take a stand for truth and justice, you are liable to scorn. Often you will be called an impractical idealist or a dangerous radical. Sometimes it might mean going to jail. If such is the case you must honorably grace the jail with your presence. It might even mean physical death. But if physical death is the price that some must pay to free their children from a permanent life of psychological death, then nothing could be more Christian. Don't worry about persecution America; you are going to have that if you stand up for a great principle. I can say this with some authority, because my life was a continual round of persecutions. After my conversion I was rejected by the disciples at Jerusalem. Later I was tried for heresy at Jerusalem. I was jailed at Philippi, beaten at Thessalonica, mobbed at Ephesus, and depressed at Athens. And yet I am still going. I came away from each of these experiences more persuaded than ever before that "neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come . . . shall separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." I still believe that standing up for the truth of God is the greatest thing in the world. This is the end of life. The end of life is not to be happy. The end of life is not to achieve pleasure and avoid pain. The end of life is to do the will of God, come what may.
I must bring my writing to a close now. Timothy is waiting to deliver this letter, and I must take leave for another church. But just before leaving, I must say to you, as I said to the church at Corinth, that I still believe that love is the most durable power in the world. Over the centuries men have sought to discover the highest good. This has been the chief quest of ethical philosophy. This was one of the big questions of Greek philosophy. The Epicurean and the Stoics sought to answer it; Plato and Aristotle sought to answer it. What is the summon bonum of life? I think I have an answer America. I think I have discovered the highest good. It is love. This principle stands at the center of the cosmos. As John says, "God is love." He who loves is a participant in the being of God. He who hates does not know God.
So American Christians, you may master the intricacies of the English language. You may possess all of the eloquence of articulate speech. But even if you "speak with the tongues of man and angels, and have not love, you are become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."
Paul's Letter to American Christians, November, 4, 1956:
I would like to share with you an imaginary letter from the pen of the Apostle Paul. The postmark reveals that it comes from the city of Ephesus. After opening the letter I discovered that it was written in Greek rather than English. At the top of the first page was this request: "Please read to your congregation as soon as possible, and then pass on to the other churches."
For several weeks I have worked assiduously with the translation. At times it has been difficult, but now I think I have deciphered its true meaning. May I hasten to say that if in presenting this letter the contents sound strangely Kingian instead of Paulinian, attribute it to my lack of complete objectivity rather than Paul's lack of clarity.
It is miraculous, indeed, that the Apostle Paul should be writing a letter to you and to me nearly 1900 years after his last letter appeared in the New Testament. How this is possible is something of an enigma wrapped in mystery. The important thing, however, is that I can imagine the Apostle Paul writing a letter to American Christians in 1956 A.D. And here is the letter as it stands before me.
I, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to you who are in America, Grace be unto you, and peace from God our Father, through our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
For many years I have longed to be able to come to see you. I have heard so much of you and of what you are doing. I have heard of the fascinating and astounding advances that you have made in the scientific realm. I have heard of your dashing subways and flashing airplanes. Through your scientific genius you have been able to dwarf distance and place time in chains. You have been able to carve highways through the stratosphere. So in your world you have made it possible to eat breakfast in New York City and dinner in Paris, France. I have also heard of your skyscraping buildings with their prodigious towers steeping heavenward. I have heard of your great medical advances, which have resulted in the curing of many dread plagues and diseases, and thereby prolonged your lives and made for greater security and physical well-being. All of that is marvelous. You can do so many things in your day that I could not do in the Greco-Roman world of my day. In your age you can travel distances in one day that took me three months to travel. That is wonderful. You have made tremendous strides in the area of scientific and technological development.
But America, as I look at you from afar, I wonder whether your moral and spiritual progress has been commensurate with your scientific progress. It seems to me that your moral progress lags behind your scientific progress. Your poet Thoreau used to talk about "improved means to an unimproved end." How often this is true. You have allowed the material means by which you live to outdistance the spiritual ends for which you live. You have allowed your mentality to outrun your morality. You have allowed your civilization to outdistance your culture. Through your scientific genius you have made of the world a neighborhood, but through your moral and spiritual genius you have failed to make of it a brotherhood. So America, I would urge you to keep your moral advances abreast with your scientific advances.
I am impelled to write you concerning the responsibilities laid upon you to live as Christians in the midst of an unChristian world. That is what I had to do. That is what every Christian has to do. But I understand that there are many Christians in America who give their ultimate allegiance to man-made systems and customs. They are afraid to be different. Their great concern is to be accepted socially. They live by some such principle as this: "everybody is doing it, so it must be alright." For so many of you Morality is merely group consensus. In your modern sociological lingo, the mores are accepted as the right ways. You have unconsciously come to believe that right is discovered by taking a sort of Gallup poll of the majority opinion. How many are giving their ultimate allegiance to this way.
But American Christians, I must say to you as I said to the Roman Christians years ago, "Be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind." Or, as I said to the Phillipian Christians, "Ye are a colony of heaven." This means that although you live in the colony of time, your ultimate allegiance is to the empire of eternity. You have a dual citizenry. You live both in time and eternity; both in heaven and earth. Therefore, your ultimate allegiance is not to the government, not to the state, not to nation, not to any man-made institution. The Christian owes his ultimate allegiance to God, and if any earthly institution conflicts with God's will it is your Christian duty to take a stand against it. You must never allow the transitory evanescent demands of man-made institutions to take precedence over the eternal demands of the Almighty God.
I understand that you have an economic system in America known as Capitalism. Through this economic system you have been able to do wonders. You have become the richest nation in the world, and you have built up the greatest system of production that history has ever known. All of this is marvelous. But Americans, there is the danger that you will misuse your Capitalism. I still contend that money can be the root of all evil. It can cause one to live a life of gross materialism. I am afraid that many among you are more concerned about making a living than making a life. You are prone to judge the success of your profession by the index of your salary and the size of the wheel base on your automobile, rather than the quality of your service to humanity.
The misuse of Capitalism can also lead to tragic exploitation. This has so often happened in your nation. They tell me that one tenth of one percent of the population controls more than forty percent of the wealth. Oh America, how often have you taken necessities from the masses to give luxuries to the classes. If you are to be a truly Christian nation you must solve this problem. You cannot solve the problem by turning to communism, for communism is based on an ethical relativism and a metaphysical materialism that no Christian can accept. You can work within the framework of democracy to bring about a better distribution of wealth. You can use your powerful economic resources to wipe poverty from the face of the earth. God never intended for one group of people to live in superfluous inordinate wealth, while others live in abject deadening poverty. God intends for all of his children to have the basic necessities of life, and he has left in this universe "enough and to spare" for that purpose. So I call upon you to bridge the gulf between abject poverty and superfluous wealth.
I would that I could be with you in person, so that I could say to you face to face what I am forced to say to you in writing. Oh, how I long to share your fellowship.
Let me rush on to say something about the church. Americans, I must remind you, as I have said to so many others, that the church is the Body of Christ. So when the church is true to its nature it knows neither division nor disunity. But I am disturbed about what you are doing to the Body of Christ. They tell me that in America you have within Protestantism more than two hundred and fifty six denominations. The tragedy is not so much that you have such a multiplicity of denominations, but that most of them are warring against each other with a claim to absolute truth. This narrow sectarianism is destroying the unity of the Body of Christ. You must come to see that God is neither a Baptist nor a Methodist; He is neither a Presbyterian nor a Episcopalian. God is bigger than all of our denominations. If you are to be true witnesses for Christ, you must come to see that America.
But I must not stop with a criticism of Protestantism. I am disturbed about Roman Catholicism. This church stands before the world with its pomp and power, insisting that it possesses the only truth. It incorporates an arrogance that becomes a dangerous spiritual arrogance. It stands with its noble Pope who somehow rises to the miraculous heights of infallibility when he speaks ex cathedra. But I am disturbed about a person or an institution that claims infallibility in this world. I am disturbed about any church that refuses to cooperate with other churches under the pretense that it is the only true church. I must emphasize the fact that God is not a Roman Catholic, and that the boundless sweep of his revelation cannot be limited to the Vatican. Roman Catholicism must do a great deal to mend its ways.
There is another thing that disturbs me to no end about the American church. You have a white church and you have a Negro church. You have allowed segregation to creep into the doors of the church. How can such a division exist in the true Body of Christ? You must face the tragic fact that when you stand at 11:00 on Sunday morning to sing "All Hail the Power of Jesus Name" and "Dear Lord and Father of all Mankind," you stand in the most segregated hour of Christian America. They tell me that there is more integration in the entertaining world and other secular agencies than there is in the Christian church. How appalling that is.
I understand that there are Christians among you who try to justify segregation on the basis of the Bible. They argue that the Negro is inferior by nature because of Noah's curse upon the children of Ham. Oh my friends, this is blasphemy. This is against everything that the Christian religion stands for. I must say to you as I have said to so many Christians before, that in Christ "there is neither Jew nor Gentile, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for we are all one in Christ Jesus." Moreover, I must reiterate the words that I uttered on Mars Hill: "God that made the world and all things therein . . . hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth."
So Americans I must urge you to get rid of every aspect of segregation. The broad universalism standing at the center of the gospel makes both the theory and practice of segregation morally unjustifiable. Segregation is a blatant denial of the unity which we all have in Christ. It substitutes an "I-it" relationship for the "I-thou" relationship. The segregator relegates the segregated to the status of a thing rather than elevate him to the status of a person. The underlying philosophy of Christianity is diametrically opposed to the underlying philosophy of segregation, and all the dialectics of the logicians cannot make them lie down together.
I praise your Supreme Court for rendering a great decision just two or three years ago. I am happy to know that so many persons of goodwill have accepted the decision as a great moral victory. But I understand that there are some brothers among you who have risen up in open defiance. I hear that their legislative halls ring loud with such words as "nullification" and "interposition." They have lost the true meaning of democracy and Christianity. So I would urge each of you to plead patiently with your brothers, and tell them that this isn't the way. With understanding goodwill, you are obligated to seek to change their attitudes. Let them know that in standing against integration, they are not only standing against the noble precepts of your democracy, but also against the eternal edicts of God himself. Yes America, there is still the need for an Amos to cry out to the nation: "Let judgement roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream."
May I say just a word to those of you who are struggling against this evil. Always be sure that you struggle with Christian methods and Christian weapons. Never succumb to the temptation of becoming bitter. As you press on for justice, be sure to move with dignity and discipline, using only the weapon of love. Let no man pull you so low as to hate him. Always avoid violence. If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in your struggle, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.
In your struggle for justice, let your oppressor know that you are not attempting to defeat or humiliate him, or even to pay him back for injustices that he has heaped upon you. Let him know that you are merely seeking justice for him as well as yourself. Let him know that the festering sore of segregation debilitates the white man as well as the Negro. With this attitude you will be able to keep your struggle on high Christian standards.
Many persons will realize the urgency of seeking to eradicate the evil of segregation. There will be many Negroes who will devote their lives to the cause of freedom. There will be many white persons of goodwill and strong moral sensitivity who will dare to take a stand for justice. Honesty impels me to admit that such a stand will require willingness to suffer and sacrifice. So don't despair if you are condemned and persecuted for righteousness' sake. Whenever you take a stand for truth and justice, you are liable to scorn. Often you will be called an impractical idealist or a dangerous radical. Sometimes it might mean going to jail. If such is the case you must honorably grace the jail with your presence. It might even mean physical death. But if physical death is the price that some must pay to free their children from a permanent life of psychological death, then nothing could be more Christian. Don't worry about persecution America; you are going to have that if you stand up for a great principle. I can say this with some authority, because my life was a continual round of persecutions. After my conversion I was rejected by the disciples at Jerusalem. Later I was tried for heresy at Jerusalem. I was jailed at Philippi, beaten at Thessalonica, mobbed at Ephesus, and depressed at Athens. And yet I am still going. I came away from each of these experiences more persuaded than ever before that "neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come . . . shall separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." I still believe that standing up for the truth of God is the greatest thing in the world. This is the end of life. The end of life is not to be happy. The end of life is not to achieve pleasure and avoid pain. The end of life is to do the will of God, come what may.
I must bring my writing to a close now. Timothy is waiting to deliver this letter, and I must take leave for another church. But just before leaving, I must say to you, as I said to the church at Corinth, that I still believe that love is the most durable power in the world. Over the centuries men have sought to discover the highest good. This has been the chief quest of ethical philosophy. This was one of the big questions of Greek philosophy. The Epicurean and the Stoics sought to answer it; Plato and Aristotle sought to answer it. What is the summon bonum of life? I think I have an answer America. I think I have discovered the highest good. It is love. This principle stands at the center of the cosmos. As John says, "God is love." He who loves is a participant in the being of God. He who hates does not know God.
So American Christians, you may master the intricacies of the English language. You may possess all of the eloquence of articulate speech. But even if you "speak with the tongues of man and angels, and have not love, you are become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."
Thursday, November 08, 2007
Interview for Multi-Site Church class
In fulfillment of my independent study on Multi-Site churches, I interviewed Dr. Jimmy Scroggins, Associate/Teaching Pastor at Highview Baptist Church.
It was a fun time and I enjoyed the results.
I have decided to post the interview here so that I could receive feedback and have dialogue with my fellow future pastors.
Enjoy!
Could you tell me how Highview came to be a multi-site church?
We began doing “Multi-site” 7 years ago, wanting to reach more people in the city. If we are honest, the original campus is not in a great location to reach the city due to its location and was maxed out in every aspect. The idea came up by asking, “What if we just took a group of people from our church here, and started another service at another location?” We chose the east end because it was the fastest growing zip code and there was not a strong “evangelistically minded Baptist church.” A small group in Spencer County joined the church and became a campus which is now at 150 in attendance. Recently, an elderly church in Valley Station voted to become a campus and we started a campus in Sellersburg, IN. We also have a Spanish service in our Fegenbush facilities.
Describe to me how Highview is expressed as a multi-site church.
Is the governing structure of the multi-site church Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Congregational, or some variation and/or combination of these historic church polities?
From their website: “Highview is Pastor-led, Deacon-served, Committee-functioned, and Congregationally approved. The congregation, under the leadership of the Holy Spirit, is the most basic unit of church government. Through prayerful submission to God and His Word, members are responsible for selecting their leaders, developing the church constitution, preserving unity and purity in the body, as well as exacting church discipline when necessary.” Highview is a congregation church, where each of the six congregations share committees. Each congregation elects and votes on committee members and these committees make decisions for all of the six locations. See What makes Highview’s six locations one church? for further explanation.
What makes Highview’s six locations one church?
There is one senior pastor with a group of pastor, one deacon body, one budget, and one congregation that is voting. The pastors and committees make decisions. Committees are comprised of representatives from all the campuses, elected by each congregation. The committees are: Finance Committee, Personal Development Committee, Grounds Committee, Nominations Committee, School Committee, By-Laws Committee, Trustees, Treasurer.
Does MS kill the autonomy of the local church?
It depends on whether you define each site as a church, which we don’t. We see each site/campus as a congregation or gathering but they are apart of Highview Baptist Church collectively. The church of Jerusalem was a one church, many locations since day one. It may not look the same as ours today, but it was. This arguement can be used against any large church that has more than one services/gatherings. We already had multiple services, so MS is a naturall progression. Remember, ‘multiple services in many locations” is how we have always thought of MS since day one.
What motivated Highview to go MS?
A desire to reach more people in the city.
What general and/or specific biblical and theological concerns came up and how did you deal with it?
The biggest question we had was: how are we going to handle the preaching? We decided not to do video venue for two reasons: Programmatically, it is expensive to do it well. Theologically, we think that according to 1 Tim 3 that part of the role of the shepherd and one of the tools/resources he has to shepherd is preaching. If we were going to show a video, why not show CJ Mahaney or someone that could preach better than we could. The reason we get up and preach is because we think that it is one of the things that God has called us to do here, for our people and one of the things we are to do in terms of leading and teaching his people is preaching.
Was traditional church planting considered? Why was MS decided?
Highview participated in church planting and felt that they could do it better as Highview due to its credibility and by being MS leverages resources and expertise in an incredible way.
How is each site connected? Is there a sense of community that exists between each site?
Sunday Night Celebration are a business meeting of sorts where everyone from every campus is able to come together and break bread and have baptisms and vote of official business.
How are new leaders identified, selected, trained, and launched into ministry in the church/sites?
No campus is a ‘farm team’ where all the training is done at one site so that they can be put into a better site. We have a ton of Seminary Students, with an unending stream of great talent. We have a pretty intensive internship with Boyce and Southern, where they come to Highview and are involved for 3-4 years and often are offered the position when it opens up. With that said, however, most of the staff has been raised up from within the church and have not come as a result of this internship.
Do you agree or disagree with the general conviction that the multi-site approach is how churches can do a better job of communicating the gospel to people who won’t or can’t come to those churches? Why?
I would not say that it is the BEST way. It is what God has called US to do right now, right here. For Highview, in 2007, it is the best way but it might not be in the future. We’re developing and trying to figure it out and are open to God’s leading in any of these areas. We are not even passionate about defending our position. We are trying to reach people, not develop a model.
If more sites enables your church to be more effective and accomplish its goals and purposes, is there a limit to the number of sites it will launch and, if so, why?
We would not do a campus somewhere else in another city/state. We give to cities for church planting, but they would never be a Highview Campus because they couldn’t gather. A site in another city couldn’t share deacons, can’t share committees, can’t share budget, they can’t gather. There is an aspect of gathering in the local church and if congregations can’t gather they aren’t one church.
What has the adoption of your MS approach cost the church?
I have seven children. Some have more, most don’t. Children cost a lot of money, energy, and effort. And sometimes my wife and I look at each other and say wouldn’t this be so much easier if we just had two? We try to budget for vacation and imagine how much more easier it would be if we only had two. So yea, there are costs but would we trade any of our kids for less cost and an easier time? Absolutely not. There are costs. But we wouldn’t trade any of it.
What’s interesting, and this is what I love about our church, is that no campus except Fegenbush could stand on it’s own and it was the Blue Collar, middle class, two income families here in Fegenbush that bought the land and built the building for the White Collar families in the East End. They bought the land and built the building that is nicer than their that they will never worship in except for a couple of Sundays Nights a year because they wanted to reach more people. So yea, there are costs, but this is what God has called us to do and we enjoy doing it.
Any advice would you give to other churches considering a MS approach?
Each situation is unique, but the one thing I would say is that you have to check your motives. The question you need to ask is, in my opinion, a Great Commission question, and that is, what is the best way for our church to take who we are and what God has given us and reach more people? And if the best way is to plant churches, stay in one location, or have multiple services, that’s what they need to do. The church is not McDonalds and shouldn’t be seen as a Franchise. If MS is done, it should be done because that is what God called you to do.
Can your MS approach develop a maximum Christian?
I don’t know how to answer that. The short answer is of course we already have. The question is; is this the best way to do make the greatest number of maximum Christians? We are making disciples, but I don’t think that it is because we are a MS. Discipleship is a two-way thing; they have to want to learn. Is MS the best way to do it? I don’t see how this model affects that one bit. If we weren’t doing a site in Spencer County, would the 12 families that were previously unchurched, be attending church? I don’t know, but they are more maximally a Christian than they were before. Can churches take credit for the ‘maximum Christians’ anyways? If they become a martyr, can we say it was because we were MS?
It was a fun time and I enjoyed the results.
I have decided to post the interview here so that I could receive feedback and have dialogue with my fellow future pastors.
Enjoy!
Could you tell me how Highview came to be a multi-site church?
We began doing “Multi-site” 7 years ago, wanting to reach more people in the city. If we are honest, the original campus is not in a great location to reach the city due to its location and was maxed out in every aspect. The idea came up by asking, “What if we just took a group of people from our church here, and started another service at another location?” We chose the east end because it was the fastest growing zip code and there was not a strong “evangelistically minded Baptist church.” A small group in Spencer County joined the church and became a campus which is now at 150 in attendance. Recently, an elderly church in Valley Station voted to become a campus and we started a campus in Sellersburg, IN. We also have a Spanish service in our Fegenbush facilities.
Describe to me how Highview is expressed as a multi-site church.
Is the governing structure of the multi-site church Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Congregational, or some variation and/or combination of these historic church polities?
From their website: “Highview is Pastor-led, Deacon-served, Committee-functioned, and Congregationally approved. The congregation, under the leadership of the Holy Spirit, is the most basic unit of church government. Through prayerful submission to God and His Word, members are responsible for selecting their leaders, developing the church constitution, preserving unity and purity in the body, as well as exacting church discipline when necessary.” Highview is a congregation church, where each of the six congregations share committees. Each congregation elects and votes on committee members and these committees make decisions for all of the six locations. See What makes Highview’s six locations one church? for further explanation.
What makes Highview’s six locations one church?
There is one senior pastor with a group of pastor, one deacon body, one budget, and one congregation that is voting. The pastors and committees make decisions. Committees are comprised of representatives from all the campuses, elected by each congregation. The committees are: Finance Committee, Personal Development Committee, Grounds Committee, Nominations Committee, School Committee, By-Laws Committee, Trustees, Treasurer.
Does MS kill the autonomy of the local church?
It depends on whether you define each site as a church, which we don’t. We see each site/campus as a congregation or gathering but they are apart of Highview Baptist Church collectively. The church of Jerusalem was a one church, many locations since day one. It may not look the same as ours today, but it was. This arguement can be used against any large church that has more than one services/gatherings. We already had multiple services, so MS is a naturall progression. Remember, ‘multiple services in many locations” is how we have always thought of MS since day one.
What motivated Highview to go MS?
A desire to reach more people in the city.
What general and/or specific biblical and theological concerns came up and how did you deal with it?
The biggest question we had was: how are we going to handle the preaching? We decided not to do video venue for two reasons: Programmatically, it is expensive to do it well. Theologically, we think that according to 1 Tim 3 that part of the role of the shepherd and one of the tools/resources he has to shepherd is preaching. If we were going to show a video, why not show CJ Mahaney or someone that could preach better than we could. The reason we get up and preach is because we think that it is one of the things that God has called us to do here, for our people and one of the things we are to do in terms of leading and teaching his people is preaching.
Was traditional church planting considered? Why was MS decided?
Highview participated in church planting and felt that they could do it better as Highview due to its credibility and by being MS leverages resources and expertise in an incredible way.
How is each site connected? Is there a sense of community that exists between each site?
Sunday Night Celebration are a business meeting of sorts where everyone from every campus is able to come together and break bread and have baptisms and vote of official business.
How are new leaders identified, selected, trained, and launched into ministry in the church/sites?
No campus is a ‘farm team’ where all the training is done at one site so that they can be put into a better site. We have a ton of Seminary Students, with an unending stream of great talent. We have a pretty intensive internship with Boyce and Southern, where they come to Highview and are involved for 3-4 years and often are offered the position when it opens up. With that said, however, most of the staff has been raised up from within the church and have not come as a result of this internship.
Do you agree or disagree with the general conviction that the multi-site approach is how churches can do a better job of communicating the gospel to people who won’t or can’t come to those churches? Why?
I would not say that it is the BEST way. It is what God has called US to do right now, right here. For Highview, in 2007, it is the best way but it might not be in the future. We’re developing and trying to figure it out and are open to God’s leading in any of these areas. We are not even passionate about defending our position. We are trying to reach people, not develop a model.
If more sites enables your church to be more effective and accomplish its goals and purposes, is there a limit to the number of sites it will launch and, if so, why?
We would not do a campus somewhere else in another city/state. We give to cities for church planting, but they would never be a Highview Campus because they couldn’t gather. A site in another city couldn’t share deacons, can’t share committees, can’t share budget, they can’t gather. There is an aspect of gathering in the local church and if congregations can’t gather they aren’t one church.
What has the adoption of your MS approach cost the church?
I have seven children. Some have more, most don’t. Children cost a lot of money, energy, and effort. And sometimes my wife and I look at each other and say wouldn’t this be so much easier if we just had two? We try to budget for vacation and imagine how much more easier it would be if we only had two. So yea, there are costs but would we trade any of our kids for less cost and an easier time? Absolutely not. There are costs. But we wouldn’t trade any of it.
What’s interesting, and this is what I love about our church, is that no campus except Fegenbush could stand on it’s own and it was the Blue Collar, middle class, two income families here in Fegenbush that bought the land and built the building for the White Collar families in the East End. They bought the land and built the building that is nicer than their that they will never worship in except for a couple of Sundays Nights a year because they wanted to reach more people. So yea, there are costs, but this is what God has called us to do and we enjoy doing it.
Any advice would you give to other churches considering a MS approach?
Each situation is unique, but the one thing I would say is that you have to check your motives. The question you need to ask is, in my opinion, a Great Commission question, and that is, what is the best way for our church to take who we are and what God has given us and reach more people? And if the best way is to plant churches, stay in one location, or have multiple services, that’s what they need to do. The church is not McDonalds and shouldn’t be seen as a Franchise. If MS is done, it should be done because that is what God called you to do.
Can your MS approach develop a maximum Christian?
I don’t know how to answer that. The short answer is of course we already have. The question is; is this the best way to do make the greatest number of maximum Christians? We are making disciples, but I don’t think that it is because we are a MS. Discipleship is a two-way thing; they have to want to learn. Is MS the best way to do it? I don’t see how this model affects that one bit. If we weren’t doing a site in Spencer County, would the 12 families that were previously unchurched, be attending church? I don’t know, but they are more maximally a Christian than they were before. Can churches take credit for the ‘maximum Christians’ anyways? If they become a martyr, can we say it was because we were MS?
Monday, November 05, 2007
Stay Tuned
Still trying to get in the habit of posting more. It is difficult without internet at home.
But for now check out The Perrine's Blog soon for pics from our camping trip to the Red River Gorge.
And check back here in the next few days for a post of my interview with Dr. Scroggins, Associate Pastor of Highview Baptist Church (One Church, Six Locations).
This interview is for my Independent Study in which I am researching the Multi-site Church movement in collaberation with Lifeway Research and Sojourn Community Church.
But for now check out The Perrine's Blog soon for pics from our camping trip to the Red River Gorge.
And check back here in the next few days for a post of my interview with Dr. Scroggins, Associate Pastor of Highview Baptist Church (One Church, Six Locations).
This interview is for my Independent Study in which I am researching the Multi-site Church movement in collaberation with Lifeway Research and Sojourn Community Church.
Friday, June 22, 2007
Wednesday, June 13, 2007
Tips for Reading Scripture
I wrote this as a brief guide for our Community Group's Summer Bible Studies.
I used an interview with Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church, Seattle by Preaching Todaycalled Reflections on Preaching and the overview of the first mark of of a Healthy Church as articulated by 9Marks Ministries
Enjoy!!
Observe
Questions to ask:
"What does the text say?"
"How is Jesus the Hero of this Text?"
To observe the text we need to spend time in the Text and not in Commentaries. The best way to do this without knowing the original languages is to read the passages in different translations. Parallel Bibles are a great tool at this point.
I recommend the Essential Evangelical Parallel Bible; which contains NKJV, ESV, NLT, and The MESSAGE.
Interpret
Questions to ask:
"What does the text mean?"
"How is Jesus the Hero of this Text?"
Here you are just synthesizing your observations, discovering principles, drawing conclusions, and seeking to discover what claim the text lays on your life. This is the point to pull out the resources. God has gifted us first with the printing press and now with the internet. It is now easier than ever to see and hear how Leaders, past and present, have interpreted the text. Some great resources are John Glynn's Commentary and Reference Survey and this site to find free books written by many old geezers.
Apply
Questions to ask:
"How do we resist the meaning of this text?"
Here we are assuming that we will not simply embrace God’s truth. We attempt to predict what objections would be raised by unbelievers and then how will answer them. Here is will cross references will help so that we can see what other passages have to say.
"Why does the meaning of this text matter?"
"What does the text mean for me?"
Here is where we connect everything we have observed to a missional purpose for our lives, families, church and ultimately God’s glory. Driscoll notes that with this, he often connects the Scripture to the character of God, nature of the gospel, the mission of the church, and the quality of lives. Look for concrete ways to obey the claim of the text on your life.
I used an interview with Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church, Seattle by Preaching Todaycalled Reflections on Preaching and the overview of the first mark of of a Healthy Church as articulated by 9Marks Ministries
Enjoy!!
Observe
Questions to ask:
"What does the text say?"
"How is Jesus the Hero of this Text?"
To observe the text we need to spend time in the Text and not in Commentaries. The best way to do this without knowing the original languages is to read the passages in different translations. Parallel Bibles are a great tool at this point.
I recommend the Essential Evangelical Parallel Bible; which contains NKJV, ESV, NLT, and The MESSAGE.
Interpret
Questions to ask:
"What does the text mean?"
"How is Jesus the Hero of this Text?"
Here you are just synthesizing your observations, discovering principles, drawing conclusions, and seeking to discover what claim the text lays on your life. This is the point to pull out the resources. God has gifted us first with the printing press and now with the internet. It is now easier than ever to see and hear how Leaders, past and present, have interpreted the text. Some great resources are John Glynn's Commentary and Reference Survey and this site to find free books written by many old geezers.
Apply
Questions to ask:
"How do we resist the meaning of this text?"
Here we are assuming that we will not simply embrace God’s truth. We attempt to predict what objections would be raised by unbelievers and then how will answer them. Here is will cross references will help so that we can see what other passages have to say.
"Why does the meaning of this text matter?"
"What does the text mean for me?"
Here is where we connect everything we have observed to a missional purpose for our lives, families, church and ultimately God’s glory. Driscoll notes that with this, he often connects the Scripture to the character of God, nature of the gospel, the mission of the church, and the quality of lives. Look for concrete ways to obey the claim of the text on your life.
Thursday, June 07, 2007
Summer Bible Study
Ok, so now it is officially summer and the men of the Community Group are officially reading through Genesis. The biggest reason why I wanted to read through the last half of the first book of the Bible is that in it we hear the accounts of the family of men that God hand picked and used to establish his Kingdom. There is so much that we can learn from these men, but my desire is that we can all walk away with a better understanding of what it means to be a Godly Man.
1 Timothy 3:1-7
1The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
In the ESV, 1 Timothy 3 has been titled Qualification for Overseers, but I think that this falsely gives men the assumption that if they do not seek to be an Elder of a church then they should not be concerned with what Paul is saying hear. However, what if we understood these qualifications as extending to all men. Look how Paul puts it, "If anyone aspires to the office...he desires a noble task." ANYONE, that you and me, guys. Why are these qualifications for overseers? Because they are those things that make any man noble, therefore they should be exemplified especially by the elders of our church.
Why am I talking about 1 Timothy 3 in regards to us reading Genesis? Let's think about it, the Jews found their conduct for life from Pentateuch. So, when Paul writes about God's qualifications for the Elders of His church, he is going to be drawing all of them from those men on who God began to build his Kingdom.
If we seek to be Godly men, let's learn from these men of old, and see what God has in store of us in Genesis.
Anybody out there want to join us?
1 Timothy 3:1-7
1The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
In the ESV, 1 Timothy 3 has been titled Qualification for Overseers, but I think that this falsely gives men the assumption that if they do not seek to be an Elder of a church then they should not be concerned with what Paul is saying hear. However, what if we understood these qualifications as extending to all men. Look how Paul puts it, "If anyone aspires to the office...he desires a noble task." ANYONE, that you and me, guys. Why are these qualifications for overseers? Because they are those things that make any man noble, therefore they should be exemplified especially by the elders of our church.
Why am I talking about 1 Timothy 3 in regards to us reading Genesis? Let's think about it, the Jews found their conduct for life from Pentateuch. So, when Paul writes about God's qualifications for the Elders of His church, he is going to be drawing all of them from those men on who God began to build his Kingdom.
If we seek to be Godly men, let's learn from these men of old, and see what God has in store of us in Genesis.
Anybody out there want to join us?
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