Interview for Multi-Site Church class

In fulfillment of my independent study on Multi-Site churches, I interviewed Dr. Jimmy Scroggins, Associate/Teaching Pastor at Highview Baptist Church.

It was a fun time and I enjoyed the results.

I have decided to post the interview here so that I could receive feedback and have dialogue with my fellow future pastors.

Enjoy!

Could you tell me how Highview came to be a multi-site church?

We began doing “Multi-site” 7 years ago, wanting to reach more people in the city. If we are honest, the original campus is not in a great location to reach the city due to its location and was maxed out in every aspect. The idea came up by asking, “What if we just took a group of people from our church here, and started another service at another location?” We chose the east end because it was the fastest growing zip code and there was not a strong “evangelistically minded Baptist church.” A small group in Spencer County joined the church and became a campus which is now at 150 in attendance. Recently, an elderly church in Valley Station voted to become a campus and we started a campus in Sellersburg, IN. We also have a Spanish service in our Fegenbush facilities.

Describe to me how Highview is expressed as a multi-site church.
Is the governing structure of the multi-site church Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Congregational, or some variation and/or combination of these historic church polities?

From their website: “Highview is Pastor-led, Deacon-served, Committee-functioned, and Congregationally approved. The congregation, under the leadership of the Holy Spirit, is the most basic unit of church government. Through prayerful submission to God and His Word, members are responsible for selecting their leaders, developing the church constitution, preserving unity and purity in the body, as well as exacting church discipline when necessary.” Highview is a congregation church, where each of the six congregations share committees. Each congregation elects and votes on committee members and these committees make decisions for all of the six locations. See What makes Highview’s six locations one church? for further explanation.

What makes Highview’s six locations one church?

There is one senior pastor with a group of pastor, one deacon body, one budget, and one congregation that is voting. The pastors and committees make decisions. Committees are comprised of representatives from all the campuses, elected by each congregation. The committees are: Finance Committee, Personal Development Committee, Grounds Committee, Nominations Committee, School Committee, By-Laws Committee, Trustees, Treasurer.

Does MS kill the autonomy of the local church?

It depends on whether you define each site as a church, which we don’t. We see each site/campus as a congregation or gathering but they are apart of Highview Baptist Church collectively. The church of Jerusalem was a one church, many locations since day one. It may not look the same as ours today, but it was. This arguement can be used against any large church that has more than one services/gatherings. We already had multiple services, so MS is a naturall progression. Remember, ‘multiple services in many locations” is how we have always thought of MS since day one.

What motivated Highview to go MS?

A desire to reach more people in the city.

What general and/or specific biblical and theological concerns came up and how did you deal with it?

The biggest question we had was: how are we going to handle the preaching? We decided not to do video venue for two reasons: Programmatically, it is expensive to do it well. Theologically, we think that according to 1 Tim 3 that part of the role of the shepherd and one of the tools/resources he has to shepherd is preaching. If we were going to show a video, why not show CJ Mahaney or someone that could preach better than we could. The reason we get up and preach is because we think that it is one of the things that God has called us to do here, for our people and one of the things we are to do in terms of leading and teaching his people is preaching.

Was traditional church planting considered? Why was MS decided?

Highview participated in church planting and felt that they could do it better as Highview due to its credibility and by being MS leverages resources and expertise in an incredible way.

How is each site connected? Is there a sense of community that exists between each site?

Sunday Night Celebration are a business meeting of sorts where everyone from every campus is able to come together and break bread and have baptisms and vote of official business.

How are new leaders identified, selected, trained, and launched into ministry in the church/sites?
No campus is a ‘farm team’ where all the training is done at one site so that they can be put into a better site. We have a ton of Seminary Students, with an unending stream of great talent. We have a pretty intensive internship with Boyce and Southern, where they come to Highview and are involved for 3-4 years and often are offered the position when it opens up. With that said, however, most of the staff has been raised up from within the church and have not come as a result of this internship.

Do you agree or disagree with the general conviction that the multi-site approach is how churches can do a better job of communicating the gospel to people who won’t or can’t come to those churches? Why?

I would not say that it is the BEST way. It is what God has called US to do right now, right here. For Highview, in 2007, it is the best way but it might not be in the future. We’re developing and trying to figure it out and are open to God’s leading in any of these areas. We are not even passionate about defending our position. We are trying to reach people, not develop a model.

If more sites enables your church to be more effective and accomplish its goals and purposes, is there a limit to the number of sites it will launch and, if so, why?

We would not do a campus somewhere else in another city/state. We give to cities for church planting, but they would never be a Highview Campus because they couldn’t gather. A site in another city couldn’t share deacons, can’t share committees, can’t share budget, they can’t gather. There is an aspect of gathering in the local church and if congregations can’t gather they aren’t one church.

What has the adoption of your MS approach cost the church?

I have seven children. Some have more, most don’t. Children cost a lot of money, energy, and effort. And sometimes my wife and I look at each other and say wouldn’t this be so much easier if we just had two? We try to budget for vacation and imagine how much more easier it would be if we only had two. So yea, there are costs but would we trade any of our kids for less cost and an easier time? Absolutely not. There are costs. But we wouldn’t trade any of it.
What’s interesting, and this is what I love about our church, is that no campus except Fegenbush could stand on it’s own and it was the Blue Collar, middle class, two income families here in Fegenbush that bought the land and built the building for the White Collar families in the East End. They bought the land and built the building that is nicer than their that they will never worship in except for a couple of Sundays Nights a year because they wanted to reach more people. So yea, there are costs, but this is what God has called us to do and we enjoy doing it.

Any advice would you give to other churches considering a MS approach?

Each situation is unique, but the one thing I would say is that you have to check your motives. The question you need to ask is, in my opinion, a Great Commission question, and that is, what is the best way for our church to take who we are and what God has given us and reach more people? And if the best way is to plant churches, stay in one location, or have multiple services, that’s what they need to do. The church is not McDonalds and shouldn’t be seen as a Franchise. If MS is done, it should be done because that is what God called you to do.

Can your MS approach develop a maximum Christian?

I don’t know how to answer that. The short answer is of course we already have. The question is; is this the best way to do make the greatest number of maximum Christians? We are making disciples, but I don’t think that it is because we are a MS. Discipleship is a two-way thing; they have to want to learn. Is MS the best way to do it? I don’t see how this model affects that one bit. If we weren’t doing a site in Spencer County, would the 12 families that were previously unchurched, be attending church? I don’t know, but they are more maximally a Christian than they were before. Can churches take credit for the ‘maximum Christians’ anyways? If they become a martyr, can we say it was because we were MS?

Stay Tuned

Still trying to get in the habit of posting more. It is difficult without internet at home.

But for now check out The Perrine's Blog soon for pics from our camping trip to the Red River Gorge.

And check back here in the next few days for a post of my interview with Dr. Scroggins, Associate Pastor of Highview Baptist Church (One Church, Six Locations).

This interview is for my Independent Study in which I am researching the Multi-site Church movement in collaberation with Lifeway Research and Sojourn Community Church.

$5 Books

Attention all, every book on the Desiring God online store will be $5 between June 27-28.

No limits.

Tips for Reading Scripture

I wrote this as a brief guide for our Community Group's Summer Bible Studies.

I used an interview with Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church, Seattle by Preaching Todaycalled Reflections on Preaching and the overview of the first mark of of a Healthy Church as articulated by 9Marks Ministries

Enjoy!!

Observe
Questions to ask:
"What does the text say?"
"How is Jesus the Hero of this Text?"

To observe the text we need to spend time in the Text and not in Commentaries. The best way to do this without knowing the original languages is to read the passages in different translations. Parallel Bibles are a great tool at this point.
I recommend the Essential Evangelical Parallel Bible; which contains NKJV, ESV, NLT, and The MESSAGE.

Interpret
Questions to ask:
"What does the text mean?"
"How is Jesus the Hero of this Text?"

Here you are just synthesizing your observations, discovering principles, drawing conclusions, and seeking to discover what claim the text lays on your life. This is the point to pull out the resources. God has gifted us first with the printing press and now with the internet. It is now easier than ever to see and hear how Leaders, past and present, have interpreted the text. Some great resources are John Glynn's Commentary and Reference Survey and this site to find free books written by many old geezers.

Apply
Questions to ask:
"How do we resist the meaning of this text?"

Here we are assuming that we will not simply embrace God’s truth. We attempt to predict what objections would be raised by unbelievers and then how will answer them. Here is will cross references will help so that we can see what other passages have to say.

"Why does the meaning of this text matter?"
"What does the text mean for me?"

Here is where we connect everything we have observed to a missional purpose for our lives, families, church and ultimately God’s glory. Driscoll notes that with this, he often connects the Scripture to the character of God, nature of the gospel, the mission of the church, and the quality of lives. Look for concrete ways to obey the claim of the text on your life.

Summer Bible Study

Ok, so now it is officially summer and the men of the Community Group are officially reading through Genesis. The biggest reason why I wanted to read through the last half of the first book of the Bible is that in it we hear the accounts of the family of men that God hand picked and used to establish his Kingdom. There is so much that we can learn from these men, but my desire is that we can all walk away with a better understanding of what it means to be a Godly Man.

1 Timothy 3:1-7

1The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

In the ESV, 1 Timothy 3 has been titled Qualification for Overseers, but I think that this falsely gives men the assumption that if they do not seek to be an Elder of a church then they should not be concerned with what Paul is saying hear. However, what if we understood these qualifications as extending to all men. Look how Paul puts it, "If anyone aspires to the office...he desires a noble task." ANYONE, that you and me, guys. Why are these qualifications for overseers? Because they are those things that make any man noble, therefore they should be exemplified especially by the elders of our church.

Why am I talking about 1 Timothy 3 in regards to us reading Genesis? Let's think about it, the Jews found their conduct for life from Pentateuch. So, when Paul writes about God's qualifications for the Elders of His church, he is going to be drawing all of them from those men on who God began to build his Kingdom.

If we seek to be Godly men, let's learn from these men of old, and see what God has in store of us in Genesis.

Anybody out there want to join us?

Help me build my Library.

Just click on the any link that I have to a book and I can earn points to the Westminster Theological Seminary Bookstore . (Or you could just click on the link). I guess I should encourage everyone to buy something from them as well.

Thanks.

Please Pray

So recently, my nearly full 40 gig ipod crashed. That's right, every time you push a button a message appears on the screen which reads, "www.apple.com/ipod/support" or something like that. Anyway's, let's just say that it sucks.

Also, please pray that the Lord will provide me with a new Job. It's not that I am unhappy at my current job. I could go into detail, and I won't, but it pretty much has to do with the goals that Kristin and I have set for the future. I have put my resume on line for an Assistant Store Manager for Starbucks.
My current manager has an interview this week for a Store Manager for Starbucks and if that goes well there is a chance that he would bring me on as the Assistant. Nothing is certain,, but I pray for God to allow for this to happen.

If it does or if it doesn't, Praise be to Him who is good.

summer vacation

I must say that it has been quite a while since I last posted. So, I am taking my time on vacation as a chance to 'update' my life a bit (blog included).

I have recently come under the conviction that this is the time, more than ever, to prepare my life for the future. This conviction could not have come at a better time because my wonderful wife and I have decided that I take over the finances. But preparing for my future entails much more than our finances. I realize that as we prepare to move to Houston, upon me finishing my B.A. in the spring, this summer is the best time to engineer my life in such a way that God can accomplish what we feel he has called us to.

Kristin will be adjusting our diet to one that is (to the best of our ability) 100% organic and natural and our general health. To help her in this she will be reading
Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon.

I will be utlizing a couple of resources to help engineer our life for not only the future, but the present, everyday aspects of our lives.

The first is
Reverse Engineering Your Life by Pastor Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church, Seattle.
This lecture has been a life-change sort of thing for me. It is a very practical, gospel-centered approach that 'engineers' your life so that you work on your life instead of within it.

A few of the guiding principles of this are:
Your life is a check book and you write a check every day;
You must see the Macro before you live in the Micro;
To see the Macro you need faith and an imagination;
Count the cost in everything that you do.

I highly recommend everyone to download the audio (from the above the link if you are a pastor, or from here if you want to hear the same material, but delivered to the men of his church.

The second resource is by Ron Blue.
I appreciate this material because it is more than just Financial Management. The goal of the 10 week workbook is to provide "a framwork of financial planning that is both biblical and relevant in our society." One of the key points is to realize that you own nothing, you are simply a steward of God's property.

My prayer is that this week will be a start of a great summer in which God will show me his plans for our future and that I have the conviction to see it through.